Last night WSU played Nicholls State and in the pre-game session a caller ask Mike Kennedy why it seemed KU got the best players in the state. Kennedy bit at the false premise and said it had always been that way with KU first, K-State second, and WSU third. I was vehemently opposed to that statement, not only because I believed it to be false, but also because of the credibility Kennedy gave to the statement being a WSU graduate and WSU sports announcer. He ought to have known better, particularly since he is a resident historian of all things athletic. But then maybe I’m the one that’s wrong. Lets see:
1. When I was 8 years old my dad and mom took me to see WSU in the first game and Meadowlark Lemon and the Harlem Globe Trotters in the second game at the old down town Wichita Forum located approximately where the library and Century II are now. The star of WSU’s team and an outstanding player was Johnnie Fredersdorph (or some such spelling). At that time in the 1940's, I believe most of our players came from Kansas and I therefore believe Johnnie Fredersdorph was from Kansas, but I’m not certain.
2-3. Two other older quality players – I’m not sure where they fit in time wise – for WSU I recall were Bob Hodson a 6'8" all Missouri Valley Conference center and Evert Wessell, maybe 6'9" just from vague memory, Evan Wessell’s grandfather I believe. I may be wrong about these two, but I think they were both Kansans.
4. Then there was Cleo Littleton, an honorable mention All American that played for WSU, not KU, recruited from Wichita East.
5-7. Playing with Cleo I believe was Herb Coin, 6'7" forward I think from Wichita; Gary Mann, a 6'3" guard I believe from Wichita East; and Joe Stevens from Wichita North, a guard in the top 10 of WSU scorers by the time he finished, who had a habit of coming across the mid court line and knocking the bottom out of the net.
8. Somewhere in here time wise, fits Charley Gill, a short quick athletic guard that I believe played for WSU that was from Wichita I believe. Maybe even Lafaiete Norwood, who coached for KU, might have played for WSU. Its just a vague thought that I have no confidence in. Norwood was quick also. I played pick-up ball with both of them.
9-10. Subsequently we had Gene Wiley who played center 4 years for the Los Angles Lakers before his knees gave out, who graduated from Wichita East at 6'11", albeit originally from the pan handle of Texas; and Vergil Brady, a quality guard on that team with Lanny Van Emen, Ron Heller, and Johnnie Giles, who I believe was from north east Kansas.
11. Then we had Al Tate, a 6'5" forward from Coffeyville Kansas who held the WSU scoring record with 44 points before Stallworth broke it with 46 against the number one team in the country Cincinnati. He went to WSU, not the closer KU, where he would have excelled just as well. He played on my intermural team in the championship game, and Ernie Moore played for the Spartans , both after they had finished their eligibility with WSU. Ernie's team won the championship beating us in the round house by 3 points. They also had Adolph Wilson, a 6'3" fullback for WSU that started as a freshman on Sumner’s basketball team when Ernie didn’t start.
12-13. There was Dave Leach from McPherson Kansas, a 6'5" small forward that was deadly from the corner who played with Stallworth and Bowman; and Vernon Smith from Newton Kansas, a 6'3" big guard small forward that was about the 6th or 7th man on that team, but was an outstanding shooter. Both I believe played in the final four in Portland OR. in 1965.
14. Then we had an All American Junior College guard from Parsons Kansas, Lennard Kelly, who could have easily went to the closer KU, but went to WSU and was outstanding.
15. Skipping to football for just a single point, Roland Lakes who was a starting tackle for the 49ers for 10 years, and also was from Parsons Kansas, played for WSU, not KU.
16. Then there was Fred Slaughter a 6'5" center from Topeka Kansas that started center for UCLA when they won their first national championship and I believe played against WSU in Portland with Edger Lacy, Erickson, Goodrich and Hazard, in 1965 which was either UCLA’s first or second national championship. I don’t think you can make the case that if Fred Slaughter from Topeka was good enough to start center for a national championship UCLA team, that he wasn’t good enough to play for KU and KU didn’t want him.
17. Another UCLA star was Lucius Allen from Kansas City Wyandotte, a high school All American as I recall, who you could also not make the case was good enough to start on national championship teams at UCLA, but wasn’t good enough to play for KU and that KU did not try to recruit him.
18. Then there was Warren Armstrong, I believe also from Kansas City Wyandotte, that was a high school All American and was all world from WSU, not KU. No one would suspect that KU didn’t try to recruit Warren Armstrong, or that he couldn’t have been an absolute star for KU.
19. Another great guard out of Kansas, was Ernie Moore out of Kansas City Sumner. I believe the quickest and best point guard every to play for WSU even up to today. He broke Ralph Miller’s state high school tournament scoring record, by scoring over 90 points in three game as I recall. I never heard anyone make the argument that KU didn’t want Ernie Moore. After all, he broke Ralph Miller’s state records and Ralph Miller was a star for KU, I believe from down the road from Lawrence in Ottawa Kansas.
20. Somewhere time wise goes a 6'4" power forward from Wichita North, Paul Stovoll, who was involuntarily forced to transfer to the Hutchinson state reformatory school where he played basketball every day with 5 pound ankle weights which developed his jumping ability to the level of Warren Armstrong. After "graduating" from Hutchinson, he played for Pratt Junior College, and subsequently as I remember for Arizona State. I saw him play for Pratt against our freshman team in the round house. He was an all world athlete and scored about 30 points as I recall.
21. Another quality guard for WSU was Ron Mendell also from Ottawa, Kansas, KU’s back door.
22. An outstanding guard and track man that I believe was a Junior College All American was Preston Carrington who I also believe was from Kansas, N.E. somewhere. He played for WSU, not KU.
23-29. Then there was Kelly Pete, Jamie Thompson, from Wichita East that were outstanding stars for WSU that played in the final four in Portland in 1965. Pete was a 6'2" super physically strong guard that could two hand dunk the ball behind his head. Thompson got 36 points against UCLA and the next game got 36 against Princeton and Bill Bradley who scored 52 as I recall. I was at Portland and saw both games. Johnnie Criss a point guard from Wichita Southeast was also on that team in the final four. Terry Benton a 6'8" center from Wichita East, held WSU rebounding records for a while until broken by x-man. Cris Boyd, a 6'9" power forward that was highly recruited out of Wichita East, went to WSU but didn’t make his eligibility and never developed his abilities as I recall. Roger McDowell, a 6'4" small forward, and Karl Papkee, a 6'6" guard-small forward, both were from Wichita West I believe. Papkee was a high school honorable mention All American that I believe was also recruited by KU, but went to WSU. And a quality starting 6'5" small forward for WSU was Ron Soft from Wichita South.
30. Of course, there was 6'9" Antoine Carr, recruited by the world, including highly recruited by WSU and KU, from Wichita Heights, who ,as you will remember, was a high school All American who went to WSU not KU, or any other school that he could have gone to.
31. Then we have the case of Greg Dreiling a 7'1" highly recruited center out of Wichita Kapon who ended the recruiting battle between KU and WSU by going to WSU for a year. But KU didn’t give up. According to Perry Baker, his best high school friend and roommate at WSU, and son of a personal friend and business partner of mine, Gene Baker, Greg was given $5,000 in an envelope marked Greg Dreiling on a pool table at a KU supporters house in Lawrence, for Greg to transfer to KU, and he did. So, I’m not giving KU any credit for Greg Dreiling.
32. Another story of the recruiting wars between WSU and KU, involves Rickie Ross, a 6'6" unbelievable range shooting star that could play point, big guard, or small forward, from Wichita South.
In a Kansas all star vs. a national all star team game in the round house, Rickie was either MVP or Co-MVP with Antoine Carr, not Meckel Jordan who was still just 6'4" at the time not his final 6'6", as I recall. Rickie committed to WSU but was talked into taking a "local flight" in Jamie Coulter’s jet on national letter of intent day, which jet just happened to land in Lawrence Kansas, and before Rickie got out of Lawrence he had signed with KU. The story goes that Jamie called his business partner Bob Geist and said: Guess where I am. I’m in Lawrence Kansas and Rickie just signed with KU. Both Coulter and Geist were WSU grads and Geist has always supported WSU. But Coulter coached Darnell Valentine in bitty ball and when Valentine went to KU, Coulter for a time changed his allegiance to KU and helped them get Rickie Ross. It was sadly not to Ross’s advantage, as he didn’t make his grades at KU, I believe didn’t play much at KU or at all, and transferred back to WSU after his first semester. Neither was he able to make his grades at WSU, and transferred to Tulsa where he played his college career.
33. I’m not the one who should have substantive knowledge of Kansas players that played for KU. But to try to be fair from what little I know of Kansas players playing for KU. The following would be my list: Ralph Miller; Jerry Gardner from Wichita East who ran cross country and track, and was a starting guard for KU; Rennie Lockman from Wichita North that had some national publicity, but was a 6'6" power forward that I never thought was an exceptional player, although he got a lot of publicity from KU; Darnell Valentine a first team high school All American 6'2" guard that WSU beat in the battle of New Orleans in 1981; Randy Canfield a 6'11" center from Wichita Southeast that was an average player for KU; and a 6'8" power forward from Leavenworth who’s name might have been Wayne Knight, I sort of vaguely remember. As I say, I’m not giving them credit for Greg Dreiling or Rickie Ross for the reason of KU’s ill-gotten methods and violations to get them.
34. A special player in my heart for KU was Nino Samuals an all state center out of Salina Kansas. I was in law school at KU when Nino was a freshman. The Lawrence Journal World and KU were booming Nino as the: "The next Cassy Russell". Nino was 6'5" and about 225-230 lbs. The first time I saw him play at KU in a preseason pickup game, he took the ball from about 30 feet out, drove in a straight line to the basket, ran over two guys, and through the ball up off the backboard so hard it bounced all the way to the free throw line. I knew instantly that Nino was not the next coming of Cassy Russell, that he could not play guard or small forward at KU as he did not have the ability to handle the ball well enough, and that he was not big enough to play power forward or center, as he had in high school. Because I was known by the KU law school types as from Wichita and that I was into basketball, I was frequently drilled by the KU folks as to the relative merits of WSU and KU basketball. Ted Owens was the coach then and he played half court basketball that I didn’t much care to watch. I remember Steve Morgan, a KU undergraduate and in my KU law school class, asking me if I had seen Nino Samuals play. I said I had. He then ask me if I though he would be the next Cassy Russell. I said no. Which answer set him off like a rocket, my answer being completely contra to his opinion. Red in the face, Steve tight lipped: "Why don’t you think he can be the next Cassy Russell?" I just said: "Because he can’t play." I though Morgan was going to have a heart attack. Hey, it was just basketball, a straightforward question, to which I gave an honest straightforward opinion; but for Morgan it was a matter of the most extreme importance, and in his opinion only an anti-KU hawker could think as I did, not because of the substance of the issue. In the end, which not surprising to me was the end of his first semester, Nino was gone never to be heard from again. Ted Owens corrected the mistake before it would embarrass him. And as to Steve Morgan, he was the only graduating attorney in my class that wanted to work in sports administration, the rest of us wanted to be attorneys practicing law to my knowledge. Morgan took a job right out of law school with the NCAA and was the infractions officer who decided the Ozell Jones case. For the unpardonable sin of having his high school gym class grade count with the rest of his classes, like 95 percent of all high school students in the country, including every player on the KU team, Morgan found that since: the other students at Long Beach Cal Poli-tech high school, a prep school for Cal Tech. and MIT, whose students mostly couldn’t walk straight so they didn’t count their gym class grades as it would hurt their ability to get into Cal Tech. and MIT; they couldn’t count Ozell’s gym grade, which put him just under the line for eligibility. And, it wasn’t Ozell’s fault, he was recruited to play basketball at 7' for Long Beach Cal Poli- Tech. Of five potential penalties, Morgan imposed the worst and required Ozell to be immediately ineligible – not inconveniently and not without Morgan’s consideration, just two games before we were to play KU in the battle of New Orleans – and further required him to transfer or lose one years eligibility. I ran into Morgan in the Federal Court House at a hearing on the Ozell Jones case, and told him their was no question in my mind that he was prejudiced, not impartial, had a KU conflict of interest with Ozell’s case, and should recuse himself; but he just got red in the face and pretended he was pure as the driven snow. But that is how the justice of the relationship between WSU and KU recruiting has been over the years, in my view.
35. Likewise for K-State, I know even less. The only player I remember was a guard from Silver Lake Kansas, Lonnie Kruger, who was a quality guard and I believe is still a head coach somewhere out west.
Well there you have it. I may be wrong, and there may be a bunch of quality Kansas players that went to KU not WSU, but in my memory of my history of knowledge of quality players in Kansas, I don’t believe KU is first, K-State is second, and WSU is third in recruiting. If I am, I am sure Kennedy with his vast knowledge of Kansas sports history, and his vast records of same, will shortly favor me with his list of example outstanding Kansas players that went to KU, not WSU. If so, I will be happy to admit my sin and post it up on my website. If not, I would like to hear Kennedy make a correction statement on the radio in his next pre game show.
By: Fred Marrs
cc: Mike Kennedy
www.alumnishockerblackandgolds.com
P.S. I forgot Arbery Sherrod a big time shooting guard from Wichita that went to WSU. How I could have forgotten Sherrod can only be attributable to my old age.
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